Mr chairman: Good morning. I welcome Mr Vatskalis, and invite you to introduce the officers accompanying you, and if you wish to make an opening statement on behalf of the Department of Health and Families. Minister vatskalis’ portfolios

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: The Central Intake Team, including after hours team, staff establishment 
as at 30 April was 16, plus two casual P2 staff.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: So, of the 16, how many are P1s and how many are P2s?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: I will take that question on notice.
 
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Question on Notice No 7.2
 
 
Mr CHAIRMAN: Would you mind just repeating it for Hansard? 
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Of the 16 intake workers currently employed in the Central Intake Team, how many are 
employed at the level of P1, and how many are employed at the level of P2?
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: That is a specific question?
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Yes. The reason I ask is that it is clear that the Children’s Commissioner and the 
Tolhurst report said that the intake team was not coping, and it had serious, indeed, severe, capacity 
problems. At the time of the Children’s Commissioner report, there were, I understand, eight, three of 
whom were P2s and the remainder were P1s, and I would have thought that if you were looking to 
increase capacity and expertise of child protection workers to make the system work better, you 
would be looking at getting more P2s.
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: Correct.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Nodding heads everywhere, and I look forward to the answer in due course. 
 
 
Mr CHAIRMAN: That is question No 7.2.
 
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Ms CARNEY: Minister, you did a radio interview on 18 February, and during that interview, I think it 
was with the ABC, you said: 
 
 
I have spoken already to the new Acting Director of the department. I have given her clear 
directions that she has to go in, use a broom, and get rid of people that cannot deliver. 
Nothing is going to be fixed unless we have got a department that functions properly.
 
 
Since then, how many people have, as you so delicately described it, been got rid of?
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: Oh, I think I will hand that to Clare.
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: I will have to take that question on notice. I think it is important to put in 
context that there are a lot of workers in the child protection system who are putting in incredible 
hours and are putting in an incredible effort to meet with the increase of demand in the child 
protection area, and my efforts have been on trying to support those staff to do the job that they are 
employed to do and do it well.
 
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Question on Notice No 7.3
 
 
Mr CHAIRMAN: Would you mind just repeating it for Hansard? 
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Since your interview on 18 February, in which you said that you gave instructions to the 
new Acting Director of the department to get rid of people, how many have been got rid of? Which is a 
very badly worded question, but it is the question in any event. My English teacher will never forgive 
me for asking a question like that. 
 

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010 
 
Mr CHAIRMAN: That is question No 7.3.
 
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Mr VATSKALIS: Member for Araluen, as Clare said, her aim is at the support staff, because there 
were people actually that decided to go somewhere else, and they left themselves, but I have to admit 
that, in the past few months since Clare has taken on that, we have seen significant improvement in 
the performance of the department, and that can be attributed to both the leadership, second, to make 
clear the targets and what the government wants, and certainly supporting staff and additional staffing 
employed.
 
 
Now, getting rid of people, they can be either dismissed, or make clear to them that it might be time to 
find a new job, and give them two options.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Well, you were beating your chest, it seems to me, on ABC radio, saying:
 
 
I have told the department to go in and get rid of people.
 
 
It is extraordinary that, at estimates, you do not know how many people have been got rid of. Your 
predecessor, despite her obvious incompetence, clearly was not listened to by senior bureaucrats. 
Should I be concerned, and should others be concerned, that either you are not being listened to by 
senior bureaucrats, or they are not following through with your clear direction?
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: Member for Araluen, first of all, under our Westminster system the minister does not 
hire or fire; that is the role of the bureaucrats. It would be really alarming if the minister says: ‘Yes 
(inaudible) because I said so’. I think senior public servants get paid more than ministers to do these 
kinds of jobs. And, for your information, in 2009 to date we had 192 commencements and 96 
(inaudible) separations.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: No doubt. But my question, you cheeky thing, is how many have been got rid of? You 
represented in a radio interview to Territorians that you were the new guy, you were going to go in 
there and act, you were going to get rid of people, and you cannot even answer how many have been 
got rid of.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: I just told you, 96.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: No, do not weasel; I am not going to put up with that. It is just indescribable the extent 
to which you do …
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: You asked a question, and you got an answer.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Ninety six separations is not like the minister beating his chest and instructing, giving a 
very clear directive, to the Acting Director to get rid of people. You and I both know that is a 
fundamental difference.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: I asked the Acting Director to go in and do whatever was necessary to fix the 
problem. If that meant people had to go, that was her decision.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: You said: ‘Use a broom’?
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: Yes, that is what I told you: use a broom to clean the department. How she is going 
to do it is her choice - or his choice - whoever it is. Public servants do the job, not the minister.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Well, it seems to me that in the area of child protection, with one exception - the 
member for Arafura - who, whilst I am yet to find a perfect, or anywhere near perfect, Labor 

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