Mr chairman: Good morning. I welcome Mr Vatskalis, and invite you to introduce the officers accompanying you, and if you wish to make an opening statement on behalf of the Department of Health and Families. Minister vatskalis’ portfolios

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010 
Ms CARNEY: Okay. So, there is a different system for social workers at RDH?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: No, as I just read out, they are to make the report and, after they have 
made the report, they are to notify their supervisor.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: So, the e-mail from the Director of Allied Services at RDH saying that social workers, or 
workers at the hospital, should discuss the matter with the team leader and, if she is not available, 
then the Director of Allied Health, before making a report - that has gone now, has it?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: Correct.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Okay, thank you. Minister, I would like to ask you some questions in relation to the 
Children’s Commissioner’s report called, A Report Relating to Child Protection Notifications made to 
NTFC in respect of Baby BM. You will recall that you tabled that report in parliament in February, and 
I do have the report, or at least I did have the report. In any event, you know the report. There were 
several recommendations from the Children’s Commissioner. One was, and I will just read it quickly to 
refresh your memory:
 
 
NTFC policies and guidelines be amended to reflect the principle that the opinions of health 
and allied personnel who have worked directly with infants and young children and their 
caregivers should be afforded special consideration in assessing the risk status and 
intervening to ensure the wellbeing of children.
 
 
Has that been done and, if so, can you produce evidence of that?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: From 1 July, health professionals will be given a new status when they 
make reports, and they will be classified as child protection reports that will be forwarded through to 
determine whether or not a formal investigation needs to be undertaken.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Why 1 July? This report was done in December, tabled in February. Why has it taken 
so long?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: 1 July is when the new structure decision-making tools will be introduced 
across the whole of the intake process, and so it is to ensure that there is consistency in decision at 
that time, and the information system has been updated to reflect that new tool.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: There were a number of difficulties with the information system. We could not 
retrieve information. There were problems with inputting information, so the government has provided 
funding to actually upgrade the system. Clare has been given instructions by me to proceed with the 
new upgrade. It does take time, but steps have been taken to address this. I would love to be able to 
do it in a week or two weeks, but I cannot. But action has been taken and things have been done in 
response to recommendations.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: The second recommendation from the report was:
 
 
NTFC develop specific guidance for the assessment of notifications involving infants and very 
young children that draws attention to their particular vulnerabilities and needs and that 
prompts consideration of a parent’s capacity to ensure safety and wellbeing.
 
 
Clare, you referred to a focus on risk for children under two years earlier. Is that the answer to the 
question I have just asked?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: Correct. The new tools have been specifically designed to address that 
issue, including issue of cumulative harm. 
 
 

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010 
Ms CARNEY: Good. And that is part of the structured decision making?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: Yes, correct.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: The third recommendation in the report was that NTFC ensures that the new decision-
making instrumentation, which I assume to mean SDN, to be used in its intake services, is specifically 
configured to identify and prompt appropriately for protective responses of cumulative harm. So you 
have just answered that question?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: Yes.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Okay. Why has it taken so long to implement a structured decision-making tool?
 
 
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: We have engaged an overseas company to assist us, as other 
jurisdictions have, Queensland and South Australia. In addition, we have had to adapt our information 
system and ensure that the structured decision-making tools are tailored for the NT context, and our 
own legislation and procedures. So that has taken some time, as well as making sure the staff are 
fully trained before the commencement of the introduction of the tools.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: That particular, the SDN, has been developed by an American child research 
centre. Of course, it is totally different what happens in the Territory, even in Australia, different things 
between Western Australia, Queensland and the Territory. It had to be adapted because of special 
needs, and also taking into account the cultural considerations.
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Minister, you would be aware of the National Framework for Protecting Australia’s 
Children 2009 to 2020, signed up by the Commonwealth and every state and territory in April 2009. 
Was this government trying to intentionally mislead their colleagues in the other states and territories 
by putting, under the heading, ‘Major Recent and Planned Reforms in the Territory’, structured 
decision-making tools and systems? They were not in place. It is 18 months, or 15 months or 
thereabouts, since this was included, talk about gilding the lily. Did you just need to fill a page of what 
you are doing, or did you want to be seen as doing something?
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: Member for Araluen, it is the intention of our government fix Children’s Services and 
part of it is to adopt mechanisms, adopt tools that are actually going to work. I cannot develop one 
myself and in our jurisdiction we have not got the skills, and we have to get them from somewhere 
else. Yes, that was our intention, it takes time to develop it and, as I explained, it was developed 
overseas, it had to be adapted for our conditions and that takes time.
 
 
I know time sometimes looks longer than it takes, but it is not up to us, there are too many factors 
involved we can not have it in a week, or a month, or even six months ...
 
 
Ms CARNEY: Or a year.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: … this takes time not only to develop it but also to train people to use it. What is the 
point of having the best program in place if …
 
 
Ms CARNEY: You do not even have it in place, so do not even go to the training. You put it into 
place, then you train.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: We have to train the people to run it, you know that very well 
 
 
Ms CARNEY: That is right.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: It is easy for you to say you have not got it in place. It is in place; people are being 
trained to use it, and it will be implemented on 1 July.
 

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