published papers on the subject. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphry_Osmond
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++++Message 6175. . . . . . . . . . . . Swedenborgianism and the Burnham
family''s religious beliefs
From: LES COLE . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 5:24:00 PM
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As I discuss more fully in my book, Bill Wilson
personally felt a need for friendship all of his
life.
Lois was similarly focused on others, and
comforting others was a fundamental part of her
personality too. We all, most likely, have felt
the need for group support and Fellowship
meetings attest to this.
All of the Burnhams demonstrated the spirit of
accepting others...whatever their nature or
flaws. They were "comfortable" with group
activity.
As I recently became more familiar with what
the Swedenborgian religion was all about, and
it is not "Quaker" but it seems rather similar,
I for the first time realized that the Burnham
family actually had a religious orientation.
The years that I knew Rog, he never expressed
any religious views or sought to influence
others with his own religious background.
However, the Burnham's moral outlook fit right
in with Bill's social strivings early in his
youth and throughout his life.
It looks to me, that Bill's spiritual growth,
which developed during his adult years, was
directly inspired by/in the "Burnham" environment
as he struggled with his years of alcoholism
while married to Lois ... and ... having a close
relationship with all the other brothers and
sisters-in-law.
That base, in my view, exceeded any influence
by the brief exposure to the Oxford Group
principles just before Bill developed the AA
program.
Les C
Colorado Springs, Colorado
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++++Message 6176. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Huxley on Bill W. as social
architect
From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 2:44:00 PM
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Back in the day, so to speak, perhaps there is some basis to reason and
conclude
that are mostly accurate, about no difference between "religion" and
"spiritual". But, I have my sincere doubts about such an observation, having
had some passing study of our colorful history (in AA) through this group.
Historical facts can be cited by anyone to justify and support just about
any
idea. But, that does not make it so.
However, today, it cannot be said that "religion" and "spiritual" are one in
the
same. They are most decidedly NOT. And this is the world . . . the NOW . . .
that interests me most. We have resources and understanding today that the
drunks did not have back then. Dare I say, better? "More will be revealed".
Living in the past world will not help us grow. We must learn from their
mistakes. If religion offered us the answer we sought to have the desire to
drink removed, we would not need AA. Fact is, it didn't work.
And there's the crux. No one (I hope) wants religious interference in AA, I
think. That would indeed kill us all, I'm afraid. And attempts to justify
such
moves, by citing "history" . . . real and imagined, are very damaging, I
think.
And make AA into a thing that becomes both scary and non-productive. Just
like
church could not get me sober, neither could an AA meeting that sounds like
church.
Jon Markle
Raleigh
9/9/82
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++++Message 6177. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Swedenborgianism and the Burnham
family''s religious beliefs
From: glennccc . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2009 3:36:00 PM
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There were a lot of Swedenborgians running
around in Bill Wilson's life and reading.
Remember that William James was brought
up as a Swedenborgian.
James' Varieties of Religious Experience had
an enormous influence on Bill Wilson's
ideas about religion and spirituality right
after he first got sober.
And we must also remember that one of William
James' main points in that book -- the thing
that did more than anything else to make it
popular and widely read -- was James'
demonstration that only a small percentage
of human beings could be helped by the kind
of revivalistic religion that talked about
undergoing "conversion" by being "born again"
in a highly emotional conversion experience.
You had to be of a certain kind of psychological
type to be helped that way, James said: people
who were highly susceptible to post-hypnotic
suggestion, because the revival sermons were
designed to have a powerfully hynoptic appeal.
It is true that James talked about people who
had visions where the heavens seemed to open,
in Lecture III of the Varieties of Religious
Experience (compare Bill W.'s white light
experience), but we should note, for example:
He talked in Lecture IV about "The Religion
of Healthy-Mindedness," by which he meant
the kind of approach which was used by
Emmet Fox and James Allen and other similar
NEW THOUGHT authors, who ALSO affected many
early AA people very strongly, and which was
very different from the approach taken by
the revivalist preachers and the people who
were seeking highly emotional "conversion
experiences."
That is because there is another subset of
the population which is of a psychological
type where the New Thought approach works
better than any of the others. Contemporary
spiritual writers who take a version of the
NEW THOUGHT approach include Louise Hay,
Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson, and the
people associated with A Course in Miracles.
But again, this spiritual approach isn't
going to work for everyone either.
What I have long been curious about is the
question of whether and how William James'
Swedenborgian background might have helped
him to understand some of these varieties
of spiritual experience, and also whether
there might not be some undercurrent in
James' thought which resonated in a positive
way with the Swedenborgian influence which
Bill W. had experienced through his years
of involvement with Lois and her family.
So Les, I am looking forward to seeing
the results of your research, and hope
very much that you can illuminate us all
further about the possible Swedenborgian
influences on Bill Wilson's ideas.
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 6178. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Huxley on Bill W. as social
architect
From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2009 9:25:00 AM
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Ernest Kurtz comments In Not God page 359,
notes to pages 136-138:
3. ... citable is Laura Huxley (Los Angles Ca)
to Wilson, 26 February 1964, replying to Wilson's
note of condolence at Aldous's death:
"Do you know the profound admiration and affection
that Aldous had for you? When he described you,
he would say 'a modern saint.'"
Note: Turning Bill Wilson into a saint, as Huxley
does above, is not the answer, but Aldous Huxley's
admiration is there.
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++++Message 6179. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Silkworth: The Little Doctor who
Loved Drunks
From: octoberbabye . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/25/2009 7:46:00 PM
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In case of necessity, it is good to remember
that one can go to the library and request a
copy of an out-of-print from interlibrary loan.
I understand that you want to own a copy, but
this might work for the time that you want to
use it.
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen" wrote:
>
> I apologize in advance if this is an inappropriate
> topic for this thread but I have exhausted my
> resources looking for a copy of
>
> Dale Mitchel, "Silkworth: The Little Doctor
> Who Loved Drunks: The Biography of William
> Duncan Silkworth, M.D." (Center City, Minnesota:
> Hazelden, 2002).
>
> Aside from paying the $61 to $200 which Amazon
> and http://www.abebooks.com/ are asking.
>
> Could someone email me if they have a copy they
> could lend me? My email address is:
>
> "Stephen"
> (saberle at comcast.net)
>
> I will be happy to pay shipping or if you are
> local in New Jersey, I could meet you at a
> meeting of your choice.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
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++++Message 6180. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: More on Huxley etc. -- the term
ex-alcoholic
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 7:15:00 PM
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At 06:16 12/22/2009, Laurie Andrews quotes
Aldous Huxley:
"Another stranger writes from Los Angeles. He
is an ex-alcoholic (sic), who had ecstatic
experiences in his early days of alcoholism
and insists ...."
I would note that the First Edition of our
Big Book used the term "ex-alcoholic" six times,
on pp. 28, 30, 271, 272, and 330, and it wasn't
until the 11th Printing in 1947 that it was
changed. I suspect the term was commonly used
then.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 6181. . . . . . . . . . . . Buddhism and AA
From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/24/2009 3:33:00 PM
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I just finished reading "One Breath at a Time,
Buddhism and the Twelve Steps," by Kevin Griffin.
What does AA history tell us about other
connections between AA and Buddhism in the past?
Is there any evidence for a direct influence
of Buddhist ideas on AA during the earliest
period?
Thanks, and a sober and Happy Christmas to all.
Michael
- - - -
From the moderator:
Richmond Walker (author of Twenty-Four Hours
a Day) was influenced to a certain degree by
ideas from the Hindu religious tradition
(note the quote at the beginning of the little
black book as merely one example).
And he in turn picked this up from his education
at Williams College where the tradition of the
New England Transcentalists was still alive,
as one can see by looking at their curriculum
and where and how their faculty were educated.
When "translated" into modern American religious
language, it is not always easy to tell the
difference between Hinduism and Buddhism.
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 6182. . . . . . . . . . . . Recovery rates
From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/25/2009 6:33:00 AM
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"... the large number of recoveries ... Of alcoholics who came to AA and
really
tried 50 per cent got sober at once and remained that way; 25 per cent
sobered
up after some relapse, and among the remainder, those who stayed with AA
showed
improvement. Other thousands came to a few AA meetings and at first decided
that
they didn't want the program. But great numbers of these - about two out of
three - began to return as time passed." (Foreword, second edition Bib Book,
1955).
Often quoted as evidence of superior recovery rates in the pioneering days.
Yet
if half those who "really tried" got sober straight away, it follows that
the
other half - who also really tried - didn't! Not so impressive after all
perhaps. And how mdo we square that with chapter five's claim that "Raely
have
we seen a person fail ..." In any case, how did AA in 1955 arrive at these
figures? Was it, as I suspect, merely anecdotal impressions, or were
statistics
collected? When did Conference first start organising its periodic
membership
surveys?
- - - -
From the moderator: see "ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
(AA) RECOVERY OUTCOME RATES: Contemporary Myth
and Misinterpretation" by Arthur S. (Arlington,
TX), Tom E. (Wappingers Falls, NY), and Glenn C.
(South Bend, IN).
http://hindsfoot.org/recout01.pdf
if you want the article as an Adobe Acrobat PDF file
http://hindsfoot.org/recout01.doc
if you would prefer to read it as an MS Word DOC file
Glenn C.
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++++Message 6183. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AA and Oxford Group history
study groups
From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 4:39:00 AM
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Bill W went to great lengths to dissociate AA
from the Oxford Group and its practices, and
to try to make AA available worldwide to any
and all.
It is now available to people who might be a
mild surprise to him and his age. Are some of
our historians and old-timers trying to turn
AA back into the Oxford group and thereby into
a Protestant sect which would exclude everybody
except for a few conservative evangelical
Bible quoters?
- - - -
From: John Barton (jax760 at yahoo.com)
The Big Book and Twelve and Twelve contain a
fair amount of "theological propositions". Both books espouse the
Christian-Judeo theology of the Bible with the frequent use of such terms as
"Father, Creator, Maker, Father of Light who presides over us all, "Him",
"He" etc. There is also significant use of bible quotes throughout both
texts
such as "Thy will be done", "The Father doeth the works", "Faith without
works
is dead" and many more too numerous and hopefully not necessary to quote
here.
As Nell Wing said Bill's greatest ability was that of a "synthesizer".
Taking
that which already existed from Medicine and Religion and adapting it to our
special use.
Whether or not AA is Spiritual, Religious, both, neither and whether of not
our
twelve steps constitute "dogma" or "doctrine" would seem to be outside
issues,
best left to the experts in the fields of sociology and anthropology.
I would also point out that just because AA says ......"xyz"..... or Bill W.
said ..."abc".... doesn't necessarily make it so.
God Bless
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++++Message 6184. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Swedenborgianism and the Burnham
family''s religious beliefs
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2009 4:37:00 PM
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A small Swedenborgian factoid:
On January 24, 1918, spurred by rumor that
Bill W might soon go overseas, he and Lois
were married at the Swedenborgian Church of
the New Jerusalem in Brooklyn, NY. The wedding
date was originally scheduled for February 1.
Lois' brother Rogers Burnham was best man (he
was also reputed to be good friends with Bill).
Cheers
Arthur
- - - -
From the moderator:
A well-known midwestern AA archivist and
historian, whom I have always deeply admired,
visited Lois Wilson not long before her
death. She asked what Lois' own religious
beliefs were, and was told that she "is a
Swedenborgian."
What struck this archivist was the use of
the present tense: not "was" a Swedenborgian
but "is" a Swedenborgian.
The archivist gave profuse thanks for being
allowed to visit Lois and talk with her, and
asked if there was anything she could do to
return the favor. She was told "please help
start a good archives in Akron in connection
with Dr. Bob's house." But that is a further
story.
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
1: http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm#Florence%20Rankin
2: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Silkworth&GScid=99997&GRid=11339789&
3: http://improveourconsciouscontact.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-question-by-gail-dewitt.html
4: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/03-09-2009/0004985249&EDATE=
5: http://www.fathermartinsashley.com/interior.php?section=AboutAshley&subsection=Bio
6: http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/a-model-of-access-to-and-continuance-in/33nxpux3imfog/4
7: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C00E1D61130E132A2575BC1A9609C946397D6CF
8: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=765521&image=251877337&images=251877337,251877379,251877417&formats=0,0,0&format=0
9: http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/pathways-to-abstinence-impact-of/33nxpux3imfog/6
10: http://museumcollections.in.gov/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=object_type&s=Booklet&record=15
11: http://imageevent.com/publicgallery/photography/symbolsandlofos000?p=79&n=1&m=-1&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
12: http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
13: http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/shall-the-fundamentalists-win.pdf
14: http://books.google.com/books?id=2bRx12uApGIC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=%22Harry+Emerson+Fosdick%22+%22Shall+the+Fundamentalists+Win%3F%22&source=bl&ots=YKN_8jj4C-&sig=-hUtvAY_HRYUrDFvErL1hzYLtlI&hl=en&ei=jORYSuaMCpDwlAeTmKTjBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8
15: http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009
16: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html
17: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2024.html
18: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2184.html
19: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Orleans_Parish,_Louisiana
20: http://amhist.ist.unomaha.edu/module_files/Harry%20Emerson%20Fosdick%20Shall%20the%20Fundamentalists%20Win.rtf
21: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:William_James_The_Varieties_of_Religious_Experience.pdf
22: http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/scienceenvironment/1789/we_were_powerless:_addiction,_the_will,_and_the_evangelical_roots_of_the_twelve_steps
23: http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/article.php?id=39321&tb=3ZGE9cSUzQWp1bHkrMTk3NyZwZz01
24: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jrt2hfWnR3TOfcR2BUHUoaiXsVSgD9BB492O0
25: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu28.htm#Anchor-Chapter-4957
26: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu28.htm#Anchor-Chapter-49575
27: http://www.jamesallenlibrary.com/the-divine-companion-instruction-concerning-the-great-reality.html
28: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/chicagotribune/obituary.aspx?n=paul-w-martin&pid=135069949
29: http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2009/11/12/Ryder-begins-work-on-TV-movie/UPI-31871258069245/
30: http://bp1.blogger.com/_Eqntjja134w/SEYGzZmccfI/AAAAAAAAACk/44OLgiO1Ri0/s1600-h/Untitled1.jpg
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